Why Hustle Culture Fails—and What to Do Instead

Todd Henry [00:00:00]:

One of the hardest lessons I've learned, both in my own career and from working with thousands of creative professionals and leaders is that great work isn't a sprint. It's a marathon punctuated by occasional sprints. You do have to sprint, but your entire career can't be a sprint.

Todd Henry [00:00:18]:

That's not the way we're designed to function.

Todd Henry [00:00:21]:

Our culture loves quick wins, viral successes, and the adrenaline rush of pushing through exhaustion. But here's the reality. If you want to create work that truly matters, you can't simply burn bright for a moment. You have to build rhythms, habits, and practices that allow you to keep shining for the long haul. In Die Empty, I wrote about the importance of pouring yourself fully into each day so you don't carry your best ideas with you to the grave. But here's the paradox. In order to die empty, you first have to learn how to live sustainably. If you neglect your health, your relationships, or the practices that keep you sharp, you'll eventually run out of steam, long before you've made your most important contribution.

Todd Henry [00:01:01]:

True bravery as a leader isn't just about running hard. It's about knowing when to pause, when to replenish, and when to prepare for the next stretch of the journey. In some ways, that's an act of faith. You're pausing. You're not grabbing what's available to you right now. You're pausing so you can prepare for what's ahead. That's why I'm excited about today's conversation. My guest is Chris Ducker.

Todd Henry [00:01:28]:

He's a serial entrepreneur, a mentor, and the author of several influential books. His newest work is called the Long Haul Leader, and it tackles this very issue. How do we build a life and a leadership approach that will keep us effective, energized, and impactful, not just for next quarter or for the next launch, but for decades to come? Chris doesn't just theorize about this, he's lived it. We talk about his hard won lessons from his own battles with burnout frameworks that he's used to help battle that and how we can resist Hustle culture and instead cultivate what he calls a life operating system. We're going to talk about a practical, heartfelt roadmap for anyone who wants to go the distance in both life and in work. This is Daily Creative. Since 2005, we've served up weekly tips to help you be brave, focused and brilliant every day. My name is Todd Henry.

Todd Henry [00:02:25]:

Welcome to the.

Chris Ducker [00:02:31]:

It is a pushback on Hustle culture. It's part memoir, part precautionary tale, part handbook, part just a bit of a warning, really, for anybody that's in any type of leadership role.

Todd Henry [00:02:43]:

That's Chris Ducker, entrepreneur and author of the new book called the Long Haul Leader. His interest in this topic is sourced in his own experience with burnout.

Chris Ducker [00:02:53]:

So, 2021, we were all dealing with, with the pandemic, obviously, and I just gotten to the point for about two or three months or so, I had noticed that by the end of the morning I was kind of cooked. I was done. My energy levels were very low. I was having to nap in the middle of the afternoon. I'd never been a napper ever. And I was just feeling kind of beaten up, so ended up going to the doctor. I think we had just come out of our first lockdown here in the uk and I went to the doc and I said, look, you know, I'm not feeling too great, really tired a lot of the time, fatigued, brain fog, you know, that kind of stuff. And she, she asked me a really simple question that I didn't see coming at all.

Chris Ducker [00:03:41]:

And I never actually really thought about it properly. She was, at first, she was like, oh, you know, we'll. We'll run some blood tests and some saliva tests for cortisol levels and this, that and the other. And I didn't really think about any much about any of that. And then she asked, so how have you been handling the current situation? And I said, without even thinking, and I'll never forget the words now, I said them because they were so. Became such a important, integral part of my recovery of this burnout was I said, the pandemic has taken everything away from me that makes me me. And it was very, very profound and very definitive at that point that I had, you know, I'd slipped into a certain amount of depression and, and a certain amount of anxiety along with the burnout as well. And she said to me, well, explain.

Chris Ducker [00:04:32]:

I said, well, look, I can't travel anywhere. I've always loved to travel. I can't see my friends both here in the UK as well as, you know, externally, elsewhere. And I've got a lot of friends over, over overseas, particularly in the United States. And I said, but I can't, I can't travel, I can't jump on stage and I can't speak and perform and, and get that, get those kind of that dopamine hit that I get from. Laughter and the round of applause is a little bit of an extrovert, like, you know, I'm just not feeling me and So I had a couple of other sessions with another doctor and I was diagnosed with depression, with anxiety. I was on antidepressants for 12 months, but deep down, physically, I'd also slipped into a phase 3 adrenal fatigue, which is fundamentally clinical burnout. When you wake up in the morning, your cortisol level should be high.

Chris Ducker [00:05:23]:

By the time the sun sets and you go to sleep, it should be nice and low. Mine was basically just flat lines 24 7. And so a whole bunch of things needed to change. And a lot of it came down to me becoming quite aware of, of what the triggers were of stress, of, you know, the importance of lowering down oxidative stress internally in my body, as well as obviously making sure that I made time for the things that I enjoyed more. And at the time, there wasn't much I was enjoying. So that kind of sent me on a whole different journey as well.

Todd Henry [00:06:00]:

It's interesting that you mentioned depression combined with burnout, because I think some people think that depression means that they're sad, right? And sadness is almost like the antidote to depression because you're feeling something, right? And whereas depression typically is just a kind of emptiness and burnout often feels the same, right? Where I can't. I can't get motivated. I can't seem to find energy for anything. There's nothing that really drives me. And again, I think unfortunately, a lot.

Todd Henry [00:06:32]:

Of leaders, by the time they reach.

Todd Henry [00:06:33]:

A point in their career where they have some degree of responsibility, they've convinced themselves that this is what work feels like.

Todd Henry [00:06:40]:

This is just what it feels like.

Todd Henry [00:06:42]:

But you would argue that that's not true, right?

Chris Ducker [00:06:45]:

100. I would argue that a hundred percent, you know, going through it the way I did, speaking with many other people that have done likewise at various times in their careers as well, you know, we. Particularly from an entrepreneurial standpoint, I can speak more from that position than I can, you know, somebody working for somebody else, because I've been doing it for 23 years now. And I often joke and sort of say, well, that's the reason why I've got no hair left and all this kind of thing. But, like, the fact of the matter is, is that it is stressful building a business, just like it can be very stressful being in the position of leadership with a large corporation. For example, 67% of most workers will say that they feel, quote, unquote, burnt out or exhausted on any given day. And you can usually pick out around about another 20% on average, on top of. For anybody that would Be classed as a sole proprietor or a solopreneur or an entrepreneur, somebody building a business of their own.

Chris Ducker [00:07:43]:

So when it's that bad and it's that prevalent, you need to ask yourself the question of, has this become normal or is this fundamentally an epidemic in its own, where people are now fundamentally ignoring it and not paying the attention to it that they should. And when you look at things like, you know, CEOs in their 40s dying on the treadmill from a heart attack because they've been working 16, 17 hour days for the last three years and surviving on caffeine and horrible diets. That's, that's very telling. And you can't deny the data that the numbers don't lie.

Todd Henry [00:08:21]:

So I think some people who would be listening to this conversation right now would say, come on, this is what work is. You have to, you have to hustle. You have to make it happen. Which I think just to clear the air, both of us agree that hard work is a virtue and you should work hard and you should be focused and you, absolutely, when you're doing, you know, so like neither, and neither of us, we both have had roles where we have worked, you know, 50, 60 plus hours a week from time to time.

Chris Ducker [00:08:48]:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Todd Henry [00:08:49]:

But you make the argument that hustle needs to be a season, not a lifestyle. Right. This is not something that should basically mark your entire life. You have to have seasons where, okay, right now I'm sprinting because this is an important season. But you also, that has to be demarcated by something. So let's talk about the antidote to this hustle culture. In the book, you spell out, literally spell out the long haul. You give us a number of antidotes to this kind of burnout, this hustle culture.

Todd Henry [00:09:20]:

I want to just pick a few of your favorites. What are a couple of the things that helped you as you were dealing with your 20, 2120 burnout that helped you come through that season and emerge on the other side as a hard working, but much more long haul focus leader.

Chris Ducker [00:09:39]:

Yeah. And, and to that point, you know, I, I am a hardworking guy. I, I'm not expecting to be lazy and to have the money drop into my lap. I've got a family of four children, a beautiful wife. I got to provide just like everybody else does. But now the way I do it today has changed incredibly compared to what it was like four, five, six, seven years ago.

Todd Henry [00:10:05]:

Chris shared about that season in 2021, when he simply couldn't take it anymore. The fatigue, the Brain fog, the sense that he was no longer himself. That moment became a catalyst for change. And I think it's worth pausing here because so many of us have been in a similar place. Often it's not the slow drift into exhaustion that wakes us up. It's some kind of breaking point. A single conversation with a doctor, a moment of honesty with a friend, or even just a realization that I can't keep going like this. Those moments are clarifying.

Todd Henry [00:10:39]:

They strip away all of the excuses and they force us to face reality. You are not a machine. But here's the clarity. Without action changes nothing. You can know you're burned out. You can know something has to change. You can know you're overwhelmed and stressed. But unless you respond, unless you take that next step, you'll end up right back where you started.

Todd Henry [00:11:02]:

It's the response to those breaking points that determines whether we spiral deeper or we begin a new trajectory. So here's what Chris did. He didn't just acknowledge the burnout. He actually built a framework for how to lead in a healthier, more sustainable way.

Chris Ducker [00:11:18]:

My computer has an operating system. Why don't I have an operating system as a leader? So I'm going to call it the Life os, the Life operating System of the long haul leader. And that's when we came up with a framework. So personal mastery, things like taking care of our health, better, spending more time learning, nurturing, you know, understanding that the, the, the relationships and you know, this goes on to love and relationships, the, the relationships that we have, the people that we surround ourselves with, they, those have to be the right kind of relationships. They've got to foster growth and they've, they've got to, you know, help develop other people. It's not just all about us, us, us all the time. Then we had, you know, the, the hobbies and the pastimes, which really became a major, major influence for me. And then obviously, you know, the, the idea of impactful work, the work that we do and understanding that it's okay to work with just the people we want to work with, particularly as entrepreneurs, we should get the opportunity to be able to pick and choose the folks that we ultimately end up bringing on board as clients.

Chris Ducker [00:12:27]:

Right. So all of these things together create that Life os. But I think it is a compound in effect. I call them micro moves, where you do these one little 1% moves here and there and the ability to be able to then have them all shelled together have that compounding effect on your life. As somebody who is in a leadership role or wants to become somebody in a leadership role.

Todd Henry [00:12:51]:

One thing that you mention in the book, specifically as it relates to meaningful work, is that you need to focus on who and not what. Right? Who is the who of Chris Ducker's work.

Chris Ducker [00:13:04]:

The who for me are the people that I have spent, I guess, probably the most time with in terms of coaching and mentoring. So, you know, at the top of the show you mentioned the fact that I am a serial entrepreneur. I have created multiple businesses from the ground up, both brick and mortar as well as online businesses as well. And so I've kind of morphed into. I didn't really see this coming, to be honest, Todd, but in the last kind of six to seven years, I've kind of morphed into this coach, mentor type of role for a lot of people. And it was actually one of my mentors who's unfortunately no longer with us, Dan Miller, who kind of gave me the permission slip to become a coach and a mentor because I was on the line for a little while with it and he said, no, you'd be great. You should try. People listen to you, they pay attention to you, they understand, you know, your worth and the industry and you've got to go in there and do it.

Chris Ducker [00:13:59]:

And the more and more and more I've done it, the more and more people I've worked with, whether it be for, you know, just a day at a workshop or through people who potentially have been part of my, my private mastermind for many years, those are the who, the people that I can impact the most are the people that I have worked the closest with, whether it be on growing their businesses or figuring out the best kind of freedom based business lifestyle for them, or whether it's kind of steering them in a slightly different direction from a career standpoint. So I think that that kind of, that kind of realization of understanding, it's not about me, it's actually about the people that you serve and you should be looking to serve the people that are naturally gravitating towards you. It shouldn't be a forced thing, it should be, you put yourself out there, you put your ideas and your opinions out there, the right people will come your way and the rest will repel away, they'll go in a different direction, and that's just fine.

Todd Henry [00:14:57]:

What I loved about this conversation with Chris is that it reminds us that leadership isn't just about driving results in the short term. It's about building the capacity to keep leading, creating and serving over the long haul. It's about creating the capacity for not just you, but for your team to continue creating value over the days, months and years to come. We talked about how hustle can be a season, but it can't be a lifestyle. At some point, if you don't intentionally manage your energy, your relationships, your practices, life will manage them for you. Burnout often sneaks up on us, and sometimes it takes a breaking point to.

Todd Henry [00:15:33]:

Realize that things need to change.

Todd Henry [00:15:34]:

But the good news is, change is possible. Remember Chris's Life OS framework, Personal mastery, hobbies, loving relationships, and meaningful work. It's not about adding more to your plate, it's about rediscovering what actually sustains you so you can show up as your best self for years to come. And that's not just self help gobbledygook, that's reality. We often dismiss things that feel a little too obvious. Sometimes reality is staring us directly in the face. So don't wait for a crisis to force you into change. Pay attention to small signals of fatigue and disengagement and use them as prompts to realign your practices and priorities.

Todd Henry [00:16:13]:

Because in the end, your greatest contribution won't come from sprinting, it will come from learning how to run the race well all the way to the finish line. As always, thank you for listening. If you'd like to get our full interviews, all of our full interviews, as well as bonus content, you can do so@dailycreativeplus.com just enter your name and email address and we'll send you a link that will allow you to have a private feed and access all of our bonus content and the full interviews for every episode. Thanks again for listening. Until next time, may you be brave, focused and brilliant, and may you keep doing work that matters. We'll see you then.