Cover Bands Don't Change The World (Inside The Creative's Mind)

Todd Henry00:00:37

There's a phrase I've used for years when speaking to creative pros and teams, and it was the title of a chapter in my first book, which was called the Accidental Creative. And the phrase is this. Cover bands don't change the world.It always gets a knowing laugh, sometimes a nod, and occasionally a visible jolt, like I just poke somebody squarely in their ambition. But let's unpack what it means. Listen. Cover bands, for those of you who don't know, they. They play other people's music and they have a place.They do. They entertain, they evoke nostalgia, they help us relive a feeling, a time or a sound.But no one remembers a cover band as a defining moment of a movement. No one says, man, that Journey tribute band changed the trajectory of my life. Right. Why? Because they're reinterpreting. They're not inventing.They're echoing something that once broke new ground, not digging fresh soil of their own. And this is where the line hits home for a lot of creative pros. We are surrounded, suffocated even, by derivative work.Everything feels vaguely familiar. Scroll any social feed and you'll see the same aesthetic, the same tropes, the same recycled bits dressed up as novelty.Everyone's remixing, and that's fine. There's nothing wrong with remixing. But few are genuinely creating from something deeper, from a deeper source.Fewer still are, risking enough to be truly original. And here's the problem with that. The world doesn't need more noise. It needs new signal, original work.The stuff that feels risky, that feels raw, that feels a little off at first, is what creates inflection points. It's what shapes culture, it's what moves people. And yes, it's what changes the world.And yet, so many creative pros, brilliant, capable people, brilliant, capable leaders, are stuck playing covers, not because they don't want to be original, but because they've been trained to believe that safe is smart, that familiar is effective. But it's not. Originality is the currency of impact.Not originality for its own sake, but originality for the sake of communicating on a deeper, authentic level. It's the fingerprint that you leave behind. It's what makes someone stop and say, wait a minute, who made this derivative work? Might get applause.It will. That's fine. But original work, that has a shot at starting a revolution. So why do we default to the COVID band mindset?Well, because originality costs something. It does. It costs attention, it costs time, it costs energy, it costs reputation, potentially more than anything. It costs courage.Doing something original means stepping outside the lines, outside the algorithm, outside the comfort zone of what people are used to. It means risking misunderstanding, risking rejection, risking failure.And if you're leading a team, or even just trying to get your work approved, the pull toward the proven can feel completely irresistible. But every breakthrough that we admire, every.Every band, every brand, every film project, product, or movement that ever shook things up, started with someone saying, I know this doesn't look like what's out there, but I think it matters. Those are the people we remember, and those are the voices that shape the future. Are you willing to be one of those voices?Here's what's important to understand. Being original doesn't mean being flawless. It means being honest.It means tapping into your unique way of seeing the world and expressing it without apology. There's a gritty, unfinished quality to truly creative work.It doesn't always polish well in the beginning, but over time, that rawness becomes its power. People want to round off your rough edges, but your rough edges are what ultimately define you, that define your impact.People aren't changed by what's perfect. They're changed by what's real. If your work doesn't cost you something emotionally, intellectually, or professionally, it's probably just a cover.So what does it mean, practically, to stop playing covers in your work? First, I think we have to notice when we're leaning on mimicry.Are you making something because it's true to a vision that you have something you feel compelled to make, or is it just because it worked for someone else? Second, we have to chase discomfort. If a creative idea feels scary to share, it probably means you're onto something potentially real.Learn to walk toward that tension, not away from it. Third, we have to define our voice. So what do you believe? What do you see? What do you really care about?What are you willing to spend yourself on behalf of? What patterns do you notice that other people ignore? Your perspective, Your point of view, Your intuition is your greatest asset.You have to use it if you want to create work that matters. Fourth, we have to protect time for original thinking. It's easy to become a content machine, but output is not the same thing as impact.Just cranking things out, putting things in front of people, isn't going to generate the ultimate result that you desire. Give yourself time to explore, to wander, to experiment. And then, finally, don't let approval be your compass. Feedback matters. It does.Feedback is critical, but feedback can't drive the car. Great work often gets misunderstood before it gets admired.Are you willing to courageously walk through that season of misunderstanding until people start to click with what you're trying to do. So cover bands don't change the world. And that's why I'm excited about today's podcast episode.Because if you're a creative pro, someone tasked with making something out of nothing on a regular basis, creating value where there wasn't value, making things up, solving problems, inventing solutions, you need more than just tips and tactics. You need clarity. You need courage. And reminders like this one. You weren't made to play covers.In this episode, we're going to explore what it means to think.Originally, we'll look at the habits, the mindset, and the practices that shape people who consistently do original work not once, but over the long arc of a career. Because being creative isn't just a job description, it's a way of life. And the world doesn't need more mimicry. It needs you at full tilt.If cover bands don't change the world, then the question becomes who does?What kind of mindset does it take not just to mimic what's come before, but to actually push into new creative territory, especially in the face of obstacles, self doubt, or a world that seems to be rooting for the safe bet? That's why I was excited to talk with Phil White. Phil is the co author of the Creative's How Exceptional Artists Think, make, and Perform.In it, he and Dr. Jim Aphromau explore the habits and mindset of 12 extraordinary creatives, from filmmakers to illustrators to Olympic athletes who have defied the odds and done original, courageous work.So if you've ever felt like your voice doesn't quite fit, or maybe feel like your work might not matter, I think you'll walk away from this conversation with a fresh perspective on what it means to do meaningful creative work in a world that often prefers the familiar. This is daily creative. For 20 years, we've shared weekly insights to help you be brave, focused and brilliant. My name is Todd Henry.Welcome to the show.

Phil White00:08:10

They're all people who would have been written off by mainstream society if you looked at their bio growing up, but yet found a way to excel.

Todd Henry00:08:20

That's Phil White, co of the new book the Creative's Mind.

Phil White00:08:24

Keegan Hall. He grew up in in one of the roughest trailer parks in the Pacific Northwest.There was drugs in his family, there was violence, domestic violence and otherwise crime.And one year his family was so broke that all he got was a stack of printer paper and a pack of markers from Walmart and and most kids would Be like, man, I wanted that Optimus Prime. That's what I wanted and never got as a kid. Big old Hasbro action figure. And he was not like that at all.He loved the little outdoor basketball hoop they had on the outside of their trailer, and he sure loved that pack of paper. And he went through it super quick.And he took a diversion after going to University of Washington's art program because people said, dude, this gallery model is gonna kill you. Like, you're super talented. No one is putting hyper realistic pen on paper or pencil on paper drawings of athletes and musicians in a gallery.You cannot make money, go into business instead.So he goes and he sells tickets for the Seattle SuperSonics NBA franchise, becomes the top salesman, they move him on the corporate sales, becomes the top salesman, goes to startups and knows everything there is to know about sales and marketing. And so that equipped him when his mom died. It was the Russell Westbrook phrase the Westbrooks kind of coined. Why not you?Anytime he'd say, yeah, but everyone's saying, I can't do this, Mom. Why not you? Somebody's going to do it. You're as good as anybody else.And his mom's passing pushed him to do a drawing of Cam Chancellor from the Seahawks. Posted it on Facebook with fear and trepidation, worried people would make fun of it. Everyone loved it.And Cam Chancellor ended up seeing it and wanting to do something with him. And then he saw that Richard Sherman was raising money for charity, and he said, hey, Richard, here's an idea.How about I draw you and your teammates and we sell them for, say, 200 bucks, and let's do 200 of them, and we'll call it Keegan 200. Because I've got a few other people I'm interested doing this for. So instantly, Sherman posts about this. 40 grand goes into Keegan's bank account.40 grand goes out to Richard Sherman's foundation, and he's since raised almost a million dollars for charity. Giannis Antetokounmpo for his dad's foundation. Eddie Vedder for his. The charity he has with his wife. So here's a guy who was written off.

Todd Henry00:10:53

What, in your estimation, based upon having identified that pattern, what in your estimation is the genesis then, of their ability to make things? I know that they would have been written off, right?Is it that there was this positioning of, hey, I'm gonna make, I'm gonna put things in the world, what does it matter, right? Because what do I have to. I'm going to take chances, I'm going to make things, I'm going to put things into the world.Whereas maybe other people would be thinking, maybe I should take a more certain route, I should take something that's a little more defined. Or what? What do you think it is that separates them?

Phil White00:11:27

When Keegan had family members fighting, he would do one of two things.He would go outside and shoot hoots with his buddies and his cousins in the trailer park, or he would just put his headphones on, listen to some Pearl Jam. This is some old school 80s in 90s hip hop and draw.So it was his in trailer escape, even though there was just a thin partition board between his parents. So for him it was an escape. And then the second key is a family member. So with Keegan, his mom said, why not you?Anytime he'd expect, oh, I can't, I love drawing, mom. Everyone says I'm never going to be able to do this. I can sell some stuff to your friends at the local bowling alley.Which again came out of him being strapped for cash and needing a way to make money. But entrepreneurship aside, need to make extra scratch aside, it was his mom saying, why not you? Somebody's got to do it.So again, a family member, one family member believed in them. So are you that person? Are you a son or daughter? Are you the one when the world doubts them, that says or their fear group makes fun of them?Or the popular kids at school are on them because they're creative, they're not sporty, they're not the most good looking. Maybe whatever the in crowd is doing, they're not doing it. They want to create. You can be that person.The pastor Sean Johnson at Red Rocks Church here in Denver said recently, if, even if you have no friends legitimately, maybe you can be the friend to a stranger that you always wish you had. There's a lot of power in that.

Todd Henry00:13:03

There's a lot of power in that. And that I think speaks to the power of community, right? Speaks to the power of having other people around you to speak courage into you.Because I do think that often in the face of uncertainty, in the face of self doubt, in the face of obstacles, I think if we don't have others speaking courage into us, we can disappear into the black hole of self doubt and begin to question. Because I once heard the guy who founded CD Baby, I heard him say one time, what looks, what feels easy to you is miraculous to other people.And I think talented people sometimes, because things often come easy to them or not easy, but like things, they can do things or See things or understand things, maybe that others. It's a mystery, right?To other people, I think they often believe anybody could do this or this is too easy or it's too obvious, but it's obvious to you. It's not obvious to everyone. And so that I think that's the role of community, right. Is having other people say no, you are very talented.No, this is not normal. What you're doing is not normal. This is not what everybody can do and you need to keep putting it out into the world.

Phil White00:14:14

Yeah.And I think bt, the Grammy nominated producer, he scored the the film Monster that Charlize Theron won best actress Oscar for back in the day and basically invented what we now call trance music. I was going to this guy's festival shows when I was 14, 15 years old back in the UK and he was huge for a reason. And he said I wasn't a normal kid.I would play around for a whole day with the sound of a marble rolling on different surfaces.And I think he maybe borrowed, stole a little voice recorder from his father and record that and see how it sounded different dropping off of different things, rolling along wood grain table, maybe like a metal workbench in the garage or whatever and falling on a carpet. Hardwood floor, the concrete floor of the garage. How does that sound different? That isn't considered normal.He mowed lawns to save up for his first synthesizer for several hot summers in the kind of D.C. maryland area. Most kids aren't saving up for their first synthesizer, especially these days. So he wouldn't be considered an in quotes normal kid.But it produced extraordinary results in the end.

Todd Henry00:15:26

Can you give us a sense of the five Cs that are in the book, the framework that you and your co author articulated that sort of describe the commonalities between these 12 highly successful creatives and artists that you explored?

Phil White00:15:43

Yeah, absolutely. So you just mentioned one a minute ago is courage, which is huge. Confidence is not something we're born in. I'm just not confident, man.Like I can't come on this podcast destined Daniel Cretton. If you don't know the name, you know his work short term 12 is one of the most incredible indie films I've ever seen.And you've heard of the people in it. Rami Malek is one, Brie Larson is another. Future Oscar winners, both at the time they weren't.And he only paid him a few hundred dollars because that's all he had. So Destin had to learn confidence even after making this and it won the audience award. At Sundance as a short film.So he got funding and distribution to make it into a full length film of some of these people I just mentioned.But Destin was so anxious and underconfident that he canceled the Marvel movie Shang Chi, the pitch for that movie, because he was too nervous and too underconfident to get up in front of Marvel executives and say, this is why I should be the one to direct this film. And this is how I'm the only one that can tell it from my perspective. And his agent literally had to talk him into going back in there.And he gave a very personal pitch about growing up in Hawaii, growing up feeling isolated, like he didn't know anyone like him.And he also had to overcome this stereotype that everyone is a Type A, and the A could stand for something whole if you wanted it to, that staples people's cell phones to the wall if they break a rule on set. This is not Destin. And he had to learn how to train confidence to deal with the likes of a Brie Larson, who I'm sure is very nice.Rami Malek, who's meant to be a good guy, but an Oscar winner. Jamie Foxx in another movie brimming with confidence.So how does somebody who's underconfident and anxious to the point of almost self sabotaging their entire career go from that to directing Shang Chi? It breaks all manner of records for the opening weekend grosses, I think somewhere between 6 and 800 million.And now he's directing Tom Holland in Spider Man 4, which will probably be a $2 billion movie. But how do you go from making films on the weekend with your buddies who appreciate that you're nervous, shy?And he said, I move slow, I talk slow, think slow. And in Hollywood, those are not traits that most people would value in a director. But for some reason, the Marvel folks saw through his anxiety.They saw through this underconfidence.And then he was also able to work on his confidence as a skill, just like you would work on your free throw shooting, and was able to overcome to the point that he's not steamrolling people. He's still a nice guy. Brie Larson's worked with him on three or four films for a reason.But he can be a nice guy and cannot be Type A and can at least get himself to where he's not so nervous that, as he says, I just want to run off the set on the first day and go and hide somewhere, go back to my apartment. I just can't.

Todd Henry00:18:44

So that the C is conf. One of the C's is confidence. What are some of the others that you articulated?

Phil White00:18:50

Commitment is another one. AI could put me out of business and you out of business tomorrow. In a year, in three years.So we should maybe just throw up our hands and say, you know what, bro, I can't do this anymore. You can't just joke that you're a Luddite and you hate social media and you wish you didn't have a smartphone. Like, you've got to do the work.But Chase Jarvis, the photographer and filmmaker and founder of CreativeLive, says that doing the work is just 50% of it. Even if it's great, even if you give yourself 50 out of 50.What if you're going to give yourself 1% on the promotion side, you got to share your work. So do the work. 50%. Share the work in an authentic way. Get it in the hands of people who can benefit from these stories.So an example of how I'm learning from Jim, learning from Keegan hall and others, and learning from Destin's story to try to be myself. Yeah.But try to not throw up my hands and despair at AI, despair at being bad at social media, despair that it feels frankly inauthentic to post anything.

Todd Henry00:19:52

Confidence and commitment are the two. I'm glad you mentioned those, because those are the two I think that a lot of leaders struggle with. Right.Because most situations are situations we've not been in before. So just much like a young filmmaker who's going in to pitch a multibillion dollar project, they have to be trained.

Phil White00:20:14

And they can be trained, but just a few minutes a day. It's an affirmation.People can debate all they want about Cristiano Ronaldo versus Messi or versus Pele, but we can say that Cristiano Ronaldo's in the top 10 to ever grace a soccer field, a football field. He has three mantras before taking a penalty or a free kick. And go. And look at the rate at which he scores these.I think it's the highest ever in both categories. One of them translates as, I always score. Pause. Let it sink in. I always score.So when old man pickup basketball on a Monday night in a small town rec center in Evergreen, Colorado, I tell these kids that are coming in that before you shoot, you catch the ball and you say to yourself, score. Maybe even say it out loud, score. That's your confidence drill. And you practice that every day. Creative sports life. Just go out and score.I always score. I've scored before. I'M gonna score again.

Todd Henry00:21:15

A huge thank you to Phil White.

Todd Henry00:21:17

For joining us today and for sharing such powerful stories from the creative's mind.

Todd Henry00:21:21

And if you want to hear our.

Todd Henry00:21:21

Full interview, you can do so@dailycreativeplus.com it's absolutely free. You can hear all of our full interviews and bonus content there.There's one thing I hope that you take from this conversation, and it's what I'm taking away. It's this. You don't have to wait until you feel ready or confident to do original work. Start with a simple mantra. Just score.Say it before you hit record. Before you open the blank page.

Todd Henry00:21:49

Before you walk into that meeting, or.

Todd Henry00:21:50

Before you pitch your idea, let it remind you that your job isn't to play it safe. It's to show up. To take the shot. To trust that your voice matters. Because it does.And remember, cover bands don't change the world, but brave, focused, original voices, they do. Hey, thanks so much for listening. My name is Todd Henry.If you want to learn more about my books, I have seven of them or my speaking events, you can do so@todhenry.com until next time. May you be brave, focused and brilliant. We'll see you then.