Trust + Enough

Todd Henry [00:00:02]:
Last week, I sent an email to my mailing list called the Trust Seesaw, in which I shared some ideas about how trust in creative organizations needs to go both ways. By the way, if you'd like to get articles like the Trust Seesaw from me, just visit bravefocusedbrilliant.com or toddhenry.com and click subscribe. Trust isn't just a nice to have in creative organizations. It's the foundation that makes meaningful work possible. So when team members lose faith in their leadership, their peers, or their organizational structure, the entire creative process suffers. You'll see it in the hesitation, the second guessing, or the constant worry about whether the team's going to get the support and resources they need to deliver excellent work. One of the most critical places where the erosion of trust becomes apparent is when team members give an inaccurate assessment of their current capacity because they don't trust that leadership won't pile too much work on them for them to handle. It's things like, well, I'd love to, but I'm really swamped right now while taking long lunches or leaving early or I'm super busy.

Todd Henry [00:01:04]:
I can't really fit that in while spending way too much time on a project of little importance. Now, it's typically not that there's an intent to deceive. Often this behavior is due to a historical lack of respect for the process of creating. So when the organization makes too many unrealistic demands over time, it's natural for team members to overstate their workload so as to avoid the feeling of overwhelm. Most conversations about organizational trust focus on whether the employees trust their leadership. But here's the thing. Organizations need to trust their people just as much. This reciprocal relationship creates a balance that, when maintained properly, enables clear communication and smart decision making about resources and priorities.

Todd Henry [00:01:46]:
But this balance often breaks down in a predictable pattern. First, there's the rhythm disconnect. So creative work follows natural cycles of intensity and recovery. So when leadership fails to recognize these rhythms, team members feel exposed and vulnerable. The natural response is that they start padding their estimates to create a safety buffer against unrealistic expectations. Hey, let's take this hill. And then once we take the hill, we're going to have some time to rest. But then there's another hill on the other side, and then another hill.

Todd Henry [00:02:16]:
And over time there's just a disconnect. There's no rhythm in the organization. Number two, the trust erosion. As team members begin overestimating their workload needs, organizations start discounting those estimates. So Even if I say, hey, I don't have space, the organization doesn't believe me. Soon, even legitimate concerns about capacity get met with skepticism. The trust relationship begins to fray at both ends. Finally, you hit the breaking point.

Todd Henry [00:02:46]:
Without correction, this pattern leads to one of three outcomes. Either a systematic breakdown, a loss of key talent, or cultural deterioration. Because no one trusts one another, any of these can significantly impact the organization's creative capacity and ultimately the long term health of the culture. As your culture erodes, you lose great talent. As you lose talent, you lose resources and it just becomes a downward spiral. So how do we build a better way forward? Well, the key to resolving the trust dynamic on creative teams lies in fostering genuine dialogue about capacity. So here's what that requires. Number one, there has to be awareness of the process.

Todd Henry [00:03:25]:
What does it actually take to do the work? Team members need to clearly communicate what's inside the black box of their work. Because the organization doesn't always know what it takes to deliver what they're asking for, it seems like no big deal. However, once team members educate the organization about the process, about what it takes, and by the way, leaders play a key role in standing in the midst of this and ensuring the organization understands what it takes for their team to do the work. Once they understand the process, the number of hours, the amount of thought involved, and realistic timeframes, it relieves a lot of the pressure. The second thing is there has to be clear capacity assessment, meaning we have to develop the ability to accurately gauge and communicate workload, not just in hours, but in terms of creative energy and mental bandwidth and to communicate when unexpected capacity exists. Hey, I have some bandwidth in the next few weeks. Is there anything I can take on? This builds trust. And then there has to be rhythm, recognition, meaning that we have to have regular discussions about work patterns, acknowledging the natural ebb and flow of creative work.

Todd Henry [00:04:28]:
There can't be another hill on the other side of the hill that we're currently climbing every single time where people will start padding their estimates because they never know when they're going to get a break, right? And then there has to be no fault honesty. We have to build an environment where we can be honest about our capacity without the fear of repercussions. We have to have clear channels for discussing workload concerns before they become critical issues. And we need shared responsibility. Both leadership and team members have to commit to honest dialogue about capacity and capabilities. So listen, when we create an environment of authentic communication and mutual respect, we can break free from the cycle of mistrust. Meaning I'm sharing accurately what my capacity is, and you're not going to ask me to do things skeptically thinking that I am lying to you about my capacity. When this happens, we can build a predictable rhythm of creative work in the organization, and this approach not only protects the team, but ensures that the organization itself can make informed decisions about commitments and resources.

Todd Henry [00:05:31]:
It builds trust both ways. The result is a sustainable creative ecosystem that serves both the team and the objectives. So here's my question for you as it relates to trust this week. How do you talk about true versus perceived capacity on your team? Do you ever find yourself padding your estimate of what you think it's going to take for you to do the work because you don't trust that there isn't going to be too much work to do? Or as a leader, do you ever find yourself skeptical about what your team is reporting to you as their capacity because you don't trust that they're not padding their their workload or their estimate, talking about how busy they are when actually they don't really have a full workload? This is what happens when we don't trust one another. We have to have trust on the team if we want to work together effectively. Okay, that was last week's newsletter. Last week's email again. If you'd like to receive those kinds of articles from me routinely, you can visit bravefocusedbrilliant.com or toddhenry.com and click on the subscribe link.

Todd Henry [00:06:34]:
All right, speaking of trust, our trust isn't just about collaborators. It's also internal. And there's no better analog for trust than our relationship with money. So there are two qualifiers to the people that this show is made for. Creative and professional. Creative means that you get to make things for a living. Hooray. Whether that means designing, writing, strategizing, leading, or some other creative act.

Todd Henry [00:06:58]:
Professional means that you're a mercenary. You're getting a paycheck to deliver your talents, and that creates an inherent set of tensions. How much is my talent worth? How do I balance doing work that I don't love in order to collect a paycheck? How much should I emphasize the creative versus the professional sides of what I do? So much about these tensions is fundamentally clouded by our personal narrative around money, and it affects everything that we do. And inherently, a lot of that is also rooted in trust. Do I trust myself? Do I trust my organization? Do I trust my own relationship with money? So this week's interview is with Elizabeth Husserl we're going to discuss the relationship with money, our relationship with money, and how it could impact our lives, both professionally and personally. So we'll be right back with the interview with Elizabeth Husserl in just a minute. Stick around.

Elizabeth Husserl [00:08:02]:
My two passions in life have been economics and finance and psychology and spirituality for, you know, since. Since undergrad. And so I've always wanted to bring those two areas in life.

Todd Henry [00:08:13]:
That's Elizabeth Husserl. She's the author of the new book the Power of Enough.

Elizabeth Husserl [00:08:17]:
And today I work as a financial advisor. I work with a ton of different clients, a lot of creative professionals, and helping them gauge, you know, what pertains to the world of money in terms of spreadsheets and business plans and investments and savings and 401k plans. And what pertains outside of the world of money, which is just as important, which is how we experience wealth.

Todd Henry [00:08:40]:
Money and creative work often feel a bit like oil and water. The moment you begin to take money for your talents, you kind of become a mercenary, meaning that you forfeit some of your creative leeway because you're being paid to do a job. And it can be difficult for creative pros to know exactly how to value their craft, how to value their talents. So this can make the entire money subject really challenging.

Elizabeth Husserl [00:09:04]:
And so as a financial advisor slash kind of money therapist, I get to do both, right? Where I can work with the emotional relationship to money and also the nitty gritty nuts and nuts and bolts of a spreadsheet and really help clients pause and be like, okay, you know what? That takes some financial hygiene. Let's create the plan. Because there's some lack of clarity or we're touching into some deeper triggering stories and beliefs you have, maybe from current situations you're going through or maybe from the past that are just as important to clean up so that you can create and design. Right. For my cultural professionals, design is such a key component. So you can design, design and feel empowered in your relationship to money. So I. I feel very fortunate that I hold both hats.

Elizabeth Husserl [00:09:46]:
I've, you know, been. I've studied in both disciplines, and a part of me is like, how does not every financial advisor have a degree in psychology? Because it's so important to our relationship to money.

Todd Henry [00:09:56]:
Well, and especially, you know, given the. The nature of what we talk about here on the show, you know, creative pros and leaders. And a lot of people are, you know, a lot of freelancers listen to the show, but a lot of people who maybe are in leadership position at a. At a marketing firm or a marketing function in an organization, you know, and we feel, as creative pros, we feel an emotional attachment to our work. So many of us love what we do. We love the value we get to create. We love that we get to use our unique skills that other people sometimes find mysterious. You know, we get to use those skills to create something.

Todd Henry [00:10:29]:
Um, and so we have that emotional relationship with our work. And I think sometimes because of that emotional relationship with our work, it creates this tension when it comes to money. We're being compensated for doing something that we can't always explain how we do, maybe because we're just really gifted in a certain way at being able to do something. And I think creative pros often are. I want to say, like, I don't want to say we're. We're incompetent when it comes to valuing our. Our work and our resources, but I think when you love what you do or when you're doing something that is in your sweet spot, sometimes it almost feels weird to be valuing that monetarily. And you talk a lot about the stories that we tell ourselves about money and how those stories affect our relationship to money.

Todd Henry [00:11:14]:
Could you give us some insight into how that dynamic might affect us as we're going about trying to put value on our. On our work?

Elizabeth Husserl [00:11:21]:
So I think one of the really key pieces that I want to say to this is so, so money in my book, the way I talk is that money's a social technology that's really important because this is where it gets a little messy, right? So back in the day, when we lived in smaller communities, everyone knew who we were. They trusted us. So money didn't have the same role as it does in our current, more modern society. Right? And so, as an artist or a creator, when you create something, it's a really hard to put a monetary value on it because you're like, oh, my God, this is, like, amazing. I would, you know, value it. Sky's the limit, right? And so you're trying to fit it within kind of like, market parameters, which is A, really hard to do. And B, touches at the core of value how you value your art, you value your work. And if.

Elizabeth Husserl [00:12:07]:
If money is a social technology that represents trust, when we put our work into the world and if we don't get paid what we think it's worth, we start to think we are not valuable enough. And that's that really fine line between what we charge for our work. Right. And how we feel about ourselves. And we need to start to kind of separate those two things, right? Because if not, we're going to be always defined by our relationship to money. And that's that love hate, I need you to do my work, but I hate sometimes what I have to do to. To. To get you.

Elizabeth Husserl [00:12:39]:
Because some cultural creative people have their creative work, but then they have their day job, right? And so how many people have to go through that situation as they build up their creative work in the world where their creative work can actually support them? Or it's like, like there's this frustration with money because it doesn't quite match our experience of what we do, right? And so we have to start to kind of separate and, and create some spaciousness. It's kind of like attachment theory in psychology, right? Are we overly attached? Are we anxiously attached? Are we avoidant of money? Like, what's our attachment style? So we can start to put money in that right place and say, okay, money, you do not define me. I have to work within the market constraints that my art is situated in. And I'm going to get savvy and figure out ways in which we can work together to either rightly price right or. And it's not just about kind of rightly, rightly pricing our work, Todd, but it's also about understanding how much of it I want to do from the creative perspective and how much do I need to make money, to pay my bills, to create some savings goals, et cetera. And so you do have to create that clear plan of what your needs are. But then we can situate different streams of income so that your creative work isn't overburdened, overstrained. Right.

Elizabeth Husserl [00:14:03]:
And over taxed at doing something that maybe it's not meant to do.

Todd Henry [00:14:10]:
Doing something that it's not meant to do. That's an interesting phrase, right? I remember a conversation I had with Seth Godin for the podcast years ago. He said something to the effect of everyone is entitled to do whatever kind of work they want, but they're not entitled to make a living from that work. I think that's the fundamental tension that a lot of creative pros feel. It's the push and pull between the creative and the professional parts of our job. The I do what I love versus the I can make a living part of it. So what often happens is that we begin to resent the very work that we chose to simply because we can't make enough money to support our financial ambitions. Or we resent our company for not valuing our talents enough.

Todd Henry [00:14:52]:
Or we resent ourselves for not having the courage to ask for what we think we're worth. And in the end, it just overshadows the fact that we get to do something we love and are talented at for a living. So the question, as Elizabeth just said, is that we have to ask, what exactly am I asking my creative work to do for me, if it's make enough money to support my financial goals, then that might mean taking work that isn't always completely fulfilling, but that adds to the bottom line. Or if it's earn a little extra money, that changes the way that you think about the work that you do and your relationship to it. For many of us, the answer is probably somewhere in the middle, which is what makes these conversations challenging and why it's important to understand why, why we have the relationship that we have with money.

Elizabeth Husserl [00:15:42]:
And so again, if we think of money, I'm going to bring it back full circle as a social technology, right? When it's meant to create an exchange, that exchange is very malleable. And we can, we can have a lot of fun as we play and create it. And it doesn't have to define us. I think that's the key piece, Todd. Money shouldn't define anyone. And the more we start to understand that, the more we take our power back in our relationship to money.

Todd Henry [00:16:06]:
I just want to qualify everything that we're talking about here by saying, like, listen, we have access to resources, information technology, the ability to earn, to make money. Really like nobody throughout the course of human history has had, you know, 200 years ago, you and I both would have been told what we're going to do for a living. And it probably would have involved farming in some form or fashion. It's probably what we would have been doing, sustenance, farming. And so we are incredibly blessed.

Elizabeth Husserl [00:16:32]:
That's a really good point. And a lot of times, one of the things that I tell my clients is that retirement is a relatively new concept as well. Right. And so it's like this retirement that we know of, that we're saving towards, you know, that was. That came more to the front and center in 1935 with the invention of Social Security. So I agree with you. What we're living in our modern times is very different to what some of our, you know, the majority of human history has gone through. And we need new technology for our modern times.

Elizabeth Husserl [00:16:58]:
And that's part of what I put forward in the book. Or what are some of these tangible practices and techniques in our relationship to. To money that are applicable today? Because this is what we're all working through.

Todd Henry [00:17:10]:
Elizabeth offers some practical ways we can begin to identify how our relationship with money might be impacting our career and our ability to make decisions. And a lot of it has to do with our memories about money.

Elizabeth Husserl [00:17:22]:
One, what's the voice that you hear? I can't tell you how many times I do these conversations with money, with clients. They're like, oh, my God, I sound just like my mom. I sound just like my dad. Or I just sound like that boss who just like, you know, like, put this idea of money in my head and we start to realize, okay, is that something that still serves me? Or if I'm ready to release and change it. So you start to bring awareness to the patterns that you have. So that's a super clear exercise, Another super clear exercise, and this one you can get for free on my website. It's write down your money story and what I like to tell people. You write down every money memory you've had, right? Kind of in big chunks of time, every five years.

Elizabeth Husserl [00:18:00]:
And then once you write it out and again, you can describe it. And especially how are you feeling in those moments which were those moment, those money memories that you were excited and super proud of, which were those money mistakes that you're like, oh, my God, I can't believe I'm writing this down, admitting it out loud. Write it out, put it down, come back to it the next day, right? Don't read it right away. And the next day, read it as if it were your best friend's story. So read it from like an outsider perspective to be like, huh? If my best friend handed me this piece of paper saying, hey, read the story, what do you see? You read it from that place, Todd, and you start to make connections on patterns of where have you actually super succeeded? Where are your superpowers and where are your shadows? And you start to gain perspective from the past that you can use in your present self and also start to use as you redefine the future. So there's. That's another super simple technique to start to see what your patterns are, which ones you want to keep and which ones you want to let go of.

Todd Henry [00:19:05]:
Elizabeth Husserl is the author of the Power of Enough, which is available now wherever books are sold. And if you'd like to hear our full interview, in which Elizabeth goes into more strategies for thinking about money in a healthy way, you can do so in the Daily Creative app at DailyCreative app. There you'll also find full interviews with all of our guests, as well as the full archive dating back years and years, daily episodes, and much, much more. Thank you so much for listening. My name is Todd Henry. If you'd like more information about my books, my speaking, and all of my other work, you can find it@toddhenry.com Again, if you'd like to receive our newsletter, you can do so@bravefocused brilliant.com or@todhenry.com, just click on subscribe. Thanks again for listening. Until next time, May you be brave, focused and brilliant.